What is an Ojo?
Posted by: Pat Crowley
in Corruption
on February 16, 2010 
The Projo has its own FACEBOOK page finally and within 24 hours they stared censoring people posting comments about their editorial policy. So much for the love of the first amendment....
But I have a question: who, or what, is Ojo?
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written by North End Chick, February 16, 2010
I have been a facebook friend for longer then 24 hours to projo. You are about a month behind on this one.
The facebook update as of 5pm yesterday: We've had some folks post personal attacks here, which have since been deleted. We'd like to remind you that our conversation guidelines must be followed. The policy states, "Please be civil. Vicious comments, personal attacks and profanity are not allowed
This site has rules. It had rules when Matt owned it and when you owned it. Both allowed people to "rate" the comments as well. How many people did you "ban" or how many comments were "deleted" in your time as owner here Pat? If there was even on incident, wouldn't that make you a hypocrite?
The facebook update as of 5pm yesterday: We've had some folks post personal attacks here, which have since been deleted. We'd like to remind you that our conversation guidelines must be followed. The policy states, "Please be civil. Vicious comments, personal attacks and profanity are not allowed
This site has rules. It had rules when Matt owned it and when you owned it. Both allowed people to "rate" the comments as well. How many people did you "ban" or how many comments were "deleted" in your time as owner here Pat? If there was even on incident, wouldn't that make you a hypocrite?
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written by North End Chick, February 16, 2010
Pat,
I have tried to hold you in a high regard but when you encourage the firing of someone because you disagree with them it makes it very hard. It makes it harder when you, a union member and advocate, encourage people to cancel subscriptions. You do realize people work here?
Do I and my coworkers do fit your union profile of "working families?" As we, as well as the reporters downstairs are part of the Guild. The pressmen who print the papers are in a union too. Do they not fit the "working families" profile?
So tell me Pat....what makes us any less then the Central Falls teachers? Don't the 500+ people here deserve their jobs?
I have tried to hold you in a high regard but when you encourage the firing of someone because you disagree with them it makes it very hard. It makes it harder when you, a union member and advocate, encourage people to cancel subscriptions. You do realize people work here?
Do I and my coworkers do fit your union profile of "working families?" As we, as well as the reporters downstairs are part of the Guild. The pressmen who print the papers are in a union too. Do they not fit the "working families" profile?
So tell me Pat....what makes us any less then the Central Falls teachers? Don't the 500+ people here deserve their jobs?
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written by DeusEx, February 16, 2010
The First Amendment, like all of the other amendments in the Bill of Rights, is a restriction upon government alone. For example, if you throw somebody out of your house for suggesting that maybe unionized school teachers don't deserve to make $90/hour in a fiscal crisis, that is not a violation of their free speech right. Nor is it a violation for the Projo to delete comments they deem offensive.
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written by Pat Crowley, February 16, 2010
Tell you rbosses to stop with the anti-union rhetoric and fire Achorn. He is such a drag on your employer. Maybe you should direct your anger upward, not outward.
And, the reaons why the teachers in Central Falls are facing their struggle is in no small part due to the disservice your employer does to the role of organized labor. Why should I encourage people to pay for that?
277-7600. Ask for circulation.
And, the reaons why the teachers in Central Falls are facing their struggle is in no small part due to the disservice your employer does to the role of organized labor. Why should I encourage people to pay for that?
277-7600. Ask for circulation.
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written by right_of_center, February 16, 2010
I guess you don't love the first amendment either, eh? Just as NorthEndChick mentioned, you personally have removed posts from this blog that you disagreed with and you were the owner of the blog even as your administrator would ban people and remove posts. All this in spite of the fact that you said you wanted rifututure.org to be a place for people on all ends of the political spectrum to be able to come and discuss issues. Turned out that you meant only those to the left of Marx are allowed to discuss, under your management.
@DeusEx, he used careful word choice in saying "So much for the love of the first amendment". He didn't accuse them of being required follow it, he merely accuses them of not following the spirit of it.
As for the Journal itself, I find it laughable when people on here and on the conservative blog both accuse the paper of being run by people opposite to their own beliefs. That must mean it runs somewhere in the middle, somewhere in the center.
@DeusEx, he used careful word choice in saying "So much for the love of the first amendment". He didn't accuse them of being required follow it, he merely accuses them of not following the spirit of it.
As for the Journal itself, I find it laughable when people on here and on the conservative blog both accuse the paper of being run by people opposite to their own beliefs. That must mean it runs somewhere in the middle, somewhere in the center.
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written by North End Chick, February 16, 2010
I am in Classified...not a reporter. If you knew anything about the paper you would understand why the two are run differently.
Again...I ask...why do you feel that the employees at the Providence Journal do not fit your mold of "Working families"? Why do you not support the over 300 guild workers here? Why do you not support me?
WHY?? WHY?? WHY?? WHY?? Hypocrite? Yes you are!!
Again...I ask...why do you feel that the employees at the Providence Journal do not fit your mold of "Working families"? Why do you not support the over 300 guild workers here? Why do you not support me?
WHY?? WHY?? WHY?? WHY?? Hypocrite? Yes you are!!
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written by DeusEx, February 16, 2010
ROC, if Pat thinks that the "spirit of the First Amendment" is to limit the censorship of offensive views expressed in privately owned venues and forums, then my previous comment was too kind. The legal misunderstanding is a common one and far more likely. Perhaps he could clarify.
I agree with you that it is hilarious both the liberal and conservative blogs see the Projo as shilling for the other side. It's obvious to any semi-independently minded person that they are simply printing what they (mistakenly or correctly) believe will sell the most papers.
I agree with you that it is hilarious both the liberal and conservative blogs see the Projo as shilling for the other side. It's obvious to any semi-independently minded person that they are simply printing what they (mistakenly or correctly) believe will sell the most papers.
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written by DeusEx, February 16, 2010
NEC, you can't take these postings seriously. Pat is a self-interested radical. If you aren't a friend of his union, you are his enemy. If you aren't with him, you're against him. Most people fit this description, and thus he considers most people expendable.
Go back over this history of this blog and look for a single post of his offering some compromise or public policy that would result in his union making even slightly less money, being given less benefits, or having less political power. You won't find one.
Go back over this history of this blog and look for a single post of his offering some compromise or public policy that would result in his union making even slightly less money, being given less benefits, or having less political power. You won't find one.
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written by North End Chick, February 16, 2010
Pat is a union hypocrite and should be treated as one. I am a union member. I pay dues as I have from the first week of working here at the projo. 75% of employees at projo are in a union.
However, he does not care about us. We are not state workers. He calls for support to working families. I work with working families everyday!
A good friend once said "you can not dictate from your couch" which is what Pat does regarding the Journal. Lately his focus has been nothing but my place of work, yet he does not read the paper.
He forgets about the people here that do not have a say on what Ed Achron says in his editorial. He simply forgets about the "working families" upstairs that report to work everyday, regardless of what we may think of the paper itself.
However, he does not care about us. We are not state workers. He calls for support to working families. I work with working families everyday!
A good friend once said "you can not dictate from your couch" which is what Pat does regarding the Journal. Lately his focus has been nothing but my place of work, yet he does not read the paper.
He forgets about the people here that do not have a say on what Ed Achron says in his editorial. He simply forgets about the "working families" upstairs that report to work everyday, regardless of what we may think of the paper itself.
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written by PinkHatLib, February 16, 2010
Especially in light of this...
At The Dallas News, a New "Bold Strategy": Section Editors Reporting to Sales Managers
http://blogs.dallasobserver.com/unfairpark/2009/12/at_the_dallas_news_the_latest.php
Anyone questioning which way the Projo leans need only look for the "Labor" section. Business section... check (http://www.projo.com/business/).
I guess working folks prefer to read about the bonus their boss gets over the issues affecting them.
As to left/right bias, no doubt there are examples that can be trotted out by either side but a leftist corporate press? What universe are you folks from?! Just goes to show that many will believe an oft repeated lie.
"Freedom of the press is guaranteed only to those who own one."
At The Dallas News, a New "Bold Strategy": Section Editors Reporting to Sales Managers
http://blogs.dallasobserver.com/unfairpark/2009/12/at_the_dallas_news_the_latest.php
Anyone questioning which way the Projo leans need only look for the "Labor" section. Business section... check (http://www.projo.com/business/).
I guess working folks prefer to read about the bonus their boss gets over the issues affecting them.
As to left/right bias, no doubt there are examples that can be trotted out by either side but a leftist corporate press? What universe are you folks from?! Just goes to show that many will believe an oft repeated lie.
"Freedom of the press is guaranteed only to those who own one."
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written by DonRoach, February 16, 2010
If people are inspired, negatively and/or positively, by his commentary then he deserves a raise.
NEC, I completely understand what you're saying. I really think Pat is doing a disservice to teachers across the state and have thought so for years. Why? Because as DeusX said, if you're not with him on 100% of the issues you are his enemy and in Achorn's case, should be fired. Seriously? His comments to you and others speak for themselves on this point.
On this blog, many conservatives are painted as anti-union and I'm sure there are many that don't like unions, i'm not one of them. To me, unions are a fundamental pillar of American society. They allow "working" men and women to collectively bargain with their employers who might otherwise be able to unilaterally decide whatever. A democracy is all about negotiation - what's right? what's wrong? who is entitled to x or y?
I think what I dislike about unions is what Pay exemplifies, no compromise no recognition that union does not equal ABOVE ALL ELSE. Unions are there to help individuals bargain collectively, keyword: bargain. I think Pat forgets that from time to time based upon his comments.
NEC, I completely understand what you're saying. I really think Pat is doing a disservice to teachers across the state and have thought so for years. Why? Because as DeusX said, if you're not with him on 100% of the issues you are his enemy and in Achorn's case, should be fired. Seriously? His comments to you and others speak for themselves on this point.
On this blog, many conservatives are painted as anti-union and I'm sure there are many that don't like unions, i'm not one of them. To me, unions are a fundamental pillar of American society. They allow "working" men and women to collectively bargain with their employers who might otherwise be able to unilaterally decide whatever. A democracy is all about negotiation - what's right? what's wrong? who is entitled to x or y?
I think what I dislike about unions is what Pay exemplifies, no compromise no recognition that union does not equal ABOVE ALL ELSE. Unions are there to help individuals bargain collectively, keyword: bargain. I think Pat forgets that from time to time based upon his comments.
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written by North End Chick, February 16, 2010
I can attest to here. As an example, on Saturdays we have "home of the week". Information on how to be a Home of the Week is located in the paper. I am in the real estate classified. I have forwarded many homes of the week to reporters. It has no bearing on how much they spend with me here in classified. It has to do with what the reporters want to place.
An agent can call and threaten pulling ads but we, this includes my boss, have absoultely no say in what they do downstairs. Which is the way things are run here from what I can see.
An agent can call and threaten pulling ads but we, this includes my boss, have absoultely no say in what they do downstairs. Which is the way things are run here from what I can see.
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written by PinkHatLib, February 16, 2010
I remember this one from a few years back...
"Who rates the news?"
http://www.projo.com/opinion/editorials/content/projo_20050819_19miss.1cd91192.html
I couldn't resist that kind of bait and wrote in that I knew the answer to that question.... advertisers! Well, you can imagine my surprise that this bastion of leftism didn't run my letter. Shock!
What I'd argue here is that there is no need for someone to go downstairs and tell folks what or what not to do. Reporters don't get where they are without internalizing these values. Recommended reading: The Problem of the Media: U.S. Communication Politics in the Twenty-First Century.
http://motherjones.com/politics/2004/10/problem-media
MJ.com: And when you have a system in which media and media policy are controlled by large corporations, do you think that this affects the day-to-day content of the news we see?
RM: Well, very rarely are you going to see the large shareholder or CEO of a corporation march into a newsroom and say, "Cover this story, don't cover that." It's a much more subtle process. The professional code adapts, but what we try to see, is how commercial and corporate pressure shape both the professional code and the sorts of things that are considered legitimate journalism and illegitimate journalism. And I think that's really the best way to understand it.
"Who rates the news?"
http://www.projo.com/opinion/editorials/content/projo_20050819_19miss.1cd91192.html
I couldn't resist that kind of bait and wrote in that I knew the answer to that question.... advertisers! Well, you can imagine my surprise that this bastion of leftism didn't run my letter. Shock!
What I'd argue here is that there is no need for someone to go downstairs and tell folks what or what not to do. Reporters don't get where they are without internalizing these values. Recommended reading: The Problem of the Media: U.S. Communication Politics in the Twenty-First Century.
http://motherjones.com/politics/2004/10/problem-media
MJ.com: And when you have a system in which media and media policy are controlled by large corporations, do you think that this affects the day-to-day content of the news we see?
RM: Well, very rarely are you going to see the large shareholder or CEO of a corporation march into a newsroom and say, "Cover this story, don't cover that." It's a much more subtle process. The professional code adapts, but what we try to see, is how commercial and corporate pressure shape both the professional code and the sorts of things that are considered legitimate journalism and illegitimate journalism. And I think that's really the best way to understand it.
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written by Pat Crowley, February 16, 2010
277-7600
Why pay for something you get for free anyway? Asking for support from people while your employer bludgeons them seems....well....hyprocritical to me, no?
Why pay for something you get for free anyway? Asking for support from people while your employer bludgeons them seems....well....hyprocritical to me, no?
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written by right_of_center, February 16, 2010
I guess the other question that I still don't understand is why can't Achorn and the Journal espouse anti-union rhetoric? Why can't he do that while other columnists and editors write their leftist agendas? And others write their middle of the road agenda? Why should the Journal fire Achorn? If they do that based on some union activist calling for it, then pretty soon, no one at the paper will have a job, because someone will call out each writer and demand they're fired.
I don't get it.
I don't get it.
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written by North End Chick, February 16, 2010
Pat...you still have not answered how you cannot support the over 500 people employed here at the Journal. How can you not support your fellow brothers and sister union members?
Again I ask...why do you not support the working families of the Providence Journal??
Again I ask...why do you not support the working families of the Providence Journal??
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written by PinkHatLib, February 16, 2010
I can't wait for next week's newly fair and balanced Projo op-ed calling for the Central Falls teachers to occupy the school buildings. To the barricades, comrades!
Most actual leftists remember all too clearly what happens to those espousing even mildly left of center positions. Remember Phil Donahue, anyone?
Most actual leftists remember all too clearly what happens to those espousing even mildly left of center positions. Remember Phil Donahue, anyone?
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written by North End Chick, February 16, 2010
My point has been how you can support unions and expect people to support unions when you don't support all unions? Such as Patrick here...
Why because we work for a newspaper that may not agree with the agenda or whatever is newsworthy at that time?
I thought working families was where the support was...no matter what the occupation. Apparently that is not true.
Why because we work for a newspaper that may not agree with the agenda or whatever is newsworthy at that time?
I thought working families was where the support was...no matter what the occupation. Apparently that is not true.
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Ojo = eye in spanish.
And, the two "o"s are made to look like eyes.
Subliminal attempt to court Spanish-speaking readers to a paper that discontinued it's Spanish language page.